highabovethewall asked:
How do you feel about Itachi's genius status/label compared to Kakashi, or even Sasuke? Concerning their backstories where both Kakashi and Itachi are heavily exposed to Konoha ideals (and Kakashi's 'those who ____ are trash' line seems like it would make sense if he decided on it fairly young and stuck to it), whereas Sasuke has a 'lighter' childhood until the massacre (I say 'lighter' but wasn't he genin level as a child?) Not about their actions later, just their set up and background?
This is going to be a long one, so buckle up! Are Itachi and Kakashi really prodigies at the level their fans think them to be? I don’t think so. Let’s look at the Databook first which almost everyone runs to but hardly knows how to read properly. This is Itachi’s:
This is Kakashi’s:
Going by this logic, Kakashi’s smarter than Itachi when the manga evidence shows otherwise. Kakashi’s lack of skill to fight Tsukuyomi has nothing to do with his intelligence, but his lack of skill to overcome Itachi in combat does! He failed thrice in his first encounter by falling for every single trick from Itachi and barely managed to save Kurenai and was completely fooled by a clone Itachi during their encounter in the forest.
This shows that Itachi’s got a sharper mind in battle compared to Kakashi who, by the way, has never won a single fight on his own. He lost his battle against Zabuza (he decided to stay longer in the water against a ninja from Mist; what a fucking idiot) and had to be saved by Genins (fucking genius!!!); and in the war, Haku blind-sided him with the same trick again; beyond that, he’s legit never won a single battle on his own; he gets literally butchered and out-smarted every single time (he got saved twice during his battle with Hidan and Kakuzu alone; he literally died against Pain; Itachi trashed him every single time and tore him about fifty million plus assholes during their Tsukuyomi fucking session; he got his ass kicked by Madara and Obito all the way to Sunday, even though he was being constantly helped by KCM and BM Naruto, Gyuki and Bee, and Gated Gai who was mostly using 6 and 7 gates; an exhausted and injured Sasuke gave him a hard time and he was about to get fucked when Naruto showed up to save his asshole; dude’s just a lil’ bitch, honestly); heck, Obito outsmarted him in their battle inside the Kamui Dimension and he isn’t even smart. I’m sure his fanboys have got plenty of bullshit to spew, but he couldn’t take on a single seven swordsmen in the war without Nara and Yamanaka clan’s aid, either. Really, which battle has Kakashi won? Zero! I’ve already talked about the pointlessness of Kakashi’s characterization here. Do look into that.
His war feats as a new Jounin? Ugh …
He got his ass beat in war at every turn and came up with no strategy of any value. Minato and Obito had to save him over and over again. Prodigy my ass. Oh, yeah, and Obito got crushed because he was trying to save Kakashi. His battle-feats are far from impressive (Pain pushes and pulls at the interval of five seconds; like, okay, dude! That’s mighty impressive that you figured this out; like, wow!). He’s got a pretty measly skill-set. His Raiton use is literally outmatched by Sasuke on every level (dude’s got literally one A-Rank Jutsu save Raikiri and that’s basically two clones joining two Raikiris! Wow!). His shaped-Jutsus, something that actually determines user talent, are C rank. His canon-feats are fucking dull as dirt.
Compared to Kakashi, Itachi’s track-record is completely unblemished, even though his battles are pretty fucking juvenile: “The core’s pulling objects to itself, so it must be gravity!” sayeth King Solo! Wow, Itachi, you don’t say?! This is but one example of Itachi’s so-called brilliant mind. His battle tactics are silly. He overcame Orochimaru through a Genjutsu, and it wasn’t even a trick Genjutsu to fool the opponent. No, he just over-powered Orochimaru through Genjutsu, unlike Sasuke during his battle against Deidara (another guy Itachi simply over-powered through Genjutsu, without using any strategy whatsoever; genius!) and Danzo, in which he creatively used his Genjutsu to outsmart his opponents. That’s got literally nothing to do with “intelligence”. So did Sasuke, but you’d see all sorts of bullshit to go along with this when Orochimaru’s Immortality Jutsu has got squat to do with his physical health (it’s quite literally spelled out by Kabuto, so I’m not even making this up). Sasuke’s plan was sound, but, let’s be real, it isn’t as if Kabuto and Orochimaru would’ve shared their plan with him. They both knew he wouldn’t go down easy; but you won’t see the fans bringing that up.
His battle with Kakashi was half-decent, but nothing out of the world. His so-called plan against Sasuke is overblown to magnanimous proportions by his wankers when he got fooled by Sasuke thrice:
Look at Itachi’s shock! Sure, he would’ve dodged it if he was healthier, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t fooled.
And he got fooled here, too:
I’m sure his wankers will say something stupid, such as, “but he had everything staged!” Did he? He’d made a crow-clone to meet Sasuke and invite him for the fight, so that’s about half of his chakra gone right there (one crow clone takes about half of the user’s chakra). Then he made another clone here, so that’s another half of his chakra gone. Wow, he’s … incredibly stupid, isn’t he that he’s basically making a clone at every turn to shave off half of his chakra when he wants to draw Orochimaru out, too. So either you accept that he’s really fucking stupid or he got fooled. Your choice!
Sasuke had counters for his every ability. I mean, he didn’t know about Susanoo, so I don’t see why it should be held against him as he left home when he only had 2-Tomoe Sharingan (he developed the last tomoe at VOTE). The “Itachi throwing Sasuke around” thing literally happened in Genjutsu (they were casting Genjutsu on each other the whole time). This fandom’s so fucking stupid that it can’t even read. I mean this:
… literally happened in a Genjutsu. At no point in Shippuden did Itachi over-power Sasuke in speed, a guy who managed to easily out-speed cloaked Bee and V1 Ae (I’ve already made a detailed post on Sasuke defeating Killer Bee here, so I won’t repeat myself on this front). What a joke. I’ve seen analysis of Sasuke’s weight being done on this. People, Itachi never even came close to out-speeding Sasuke at any point in Part II. This Fandom continues to be as bright as a chicken’s asshole.
Itachi’s Sword Totsuki and Mirror Yata have nothing to do with intelligence. He found them somewhere and added them to his Susanoo. His only good strategic feat is the one in which he casually figured out that all of the Rinnegan eyes are connected during his battle against Nagato in the war-arc. That’s something that took Jiraiya, ma, and pa the whole battle to figure out; so that’s impressive. Beyond that, Itachi’s invented zero Jutsu and has improved on zero Jutsu. In this regard, Kakashi’s mildly impressive. I’ve already made a list of posts on Itachi’s characterization, so I’m not going to repeat anything on that front. You can check them out here; however, I’d say this: if someone can make sense of his character in the manga, which are basically four different characters trying to be a single character, I’d send every single one of my follower my nudes–whether you like it or not!
Then we have the whole databook comparison that people keep prattling on about, and I’m going to debunk this altogether. The databook stats aren’t comparable. How? Read ahead.
This is the Sannin’s:
This is what Hiruzen had to say about Orochimaru:
So all of them graduated at the same time but only Orochimaru was a genius? Cool. Jiraiya was never a genius. Even a dunce like Naruto managed to perfect Sage Mode, but he couldn’t. He’s got zero Jutsus that he invented. He mostly leeched off his own student, Minato.
Then we’ve got Hinata and Neji’s databook stats, which might actually shock you:
Oh, no, Hinata’s mind stats are greater than the greatest prodigy Hyuga clan has ever produced? I’ve already proven here that war-arc Hinata wasn’t even half as good as Genin Neji, so I don’t see a point in elaborating on that: post.
So how should these stats be read? Here’s how:
It’s almost as if the stats show personal growth only! See, Sakura isn’t being called a genius (she hasn’t been called that any any point in the manga); Sasuke is; but his mind stats are somehow lower. Heck, Sakura took three months to make one fish wriggle, but Sasuke learned Chidori and Lee’s speed in under a week (he was in a coma for most of the month). I’ve explained it in the post here. Not to mention that he learned and mastered Uchiha Right of Passage Jutsu in under a week at the age of 5 or 6:
I’ve already highlighted in that “Sakura hasn’t surpassed Tsunade” post that combining Nature and Spatial Re-composition is an above A-Rank feat. But Fugaku didn’t teach him anything. Neither did Itachi:
Sasuke’s shocked that Fugaku’s even returned his morning greeting. Itachi only used to stall him:
Itachi had a teacher and was getting training in Anbu:
So Itachi was getting training from Fugaku who used to go on missions with him and his teacher. Sasuke had no such luxury. That’s true for Kakashi, too, who learned Rasengan through Minato, and that’s how he learned Chidori. Fugaku used to outright ignore Sasuke and Itachi didn’t teach him anything, either. And guess what? He learned all of the Katon Jutsus on his own, which include the complex Dragon Flames and Shuriken in Katon Jutsus:
Not to mention the fact that Sasuke already knew how to channel elemental and non-elemental chakra through objects before Kakashi ever taught him Chidori:
I’ve already showed the Dragon Jutsu (which Itachi didn’t know, by the way) above, as well. People would say: “well, he used it in Part II, so he obviously didn’t know it then; he learned it in part II.” And I’d ask them, fucking how? Sasuke left Leaf and took nothing with him. How did he learn a Jutsu during time-skip when that Jutsu is Uchiha specific? Who taught it to him? Orochimaru? Orochimaru didn’t even teach Sasuke any Ninjutsu you see in Part II; Sasuke invented a total of eight different ways to use Raiton (excluding Chidori) all on his own:
Also, it’s interesting to note here that it took Minato 3 years to create and master Rasengan and Rasengan only. An Incomplete Jutsu. He miserably failed at combining an element with it. Remember, Rasengan is Shape Manipulation only. It took Sasuke 2.5 years to create 7 different forms of Chidori and Kirin on his own. That makes 8 Jutsus compared to just 1 Minato created and mastered!
I’ll throw in the Boruto stats, as well:
The whole Boruto started on the line that Boruto’s a prodigy, but Sarada’s stats are higher, especially in intelligence. What more needs to be said here? The stats are there for personal growth only: the higher the margin, the more the potential for growth. Hinata’s intelligence was higher than Neji’s because that dumbass had peaked in part I (she literally learned a single Jutsu in Part II and still couldn’t use it properly). There was a reason why Hiashi praised Neji and was sick of Hinata.
Another important thing is the war-time. Both Itachi and Kakashi were promoted in war-time:
If that was not true, why did Kakashi perform so poorly in war compared to an average Jounin? He literally got his ass kicked (his eye got fucking poked out). Promotions happened quickly in war. And if every statement about these characters is true, why’s it not true for Sasuke?
(People love using that Kakashi scan in which he says that Sasuke can’t compete with Neji, but they love ignoring the scan in which Neji himself states that Sasuke would be pretty fucking hard to take on; apparently, Kakashi knows more about Neji than Neji himself does; when someone presses upon Kakashi’s scan and ignores Neji’s own statement, that’s when you know that you’re dealing with a stinky and biased asshole who’s not interested in anything Canon has to say.)
Tenten agrees with Neji, too; but, hey, let’s keep beating that dead-horse of Kakashi’s scan in which he says Sasuke can’t!
(Sasuke created this Taijutsu technique from Lee’s Taijutsu in a single day, which Gai says is something impossible to do, even with a Sharingan; now, I’m sure this Fandom knows more than a cartoon who’s supposed to be an expert in this field.)
Oh, no, Shikamaru was a Sasuke wanker, too, who considered him to be smarter and better than him in every single way; and he is because Shikamaru hasn’t won a single battle (or put out even a half-decent strategy) since that one time against that Sound opponent. I won’t count the Hidan win as that’s won on a trick that makes no sense!
Sasuke mastered Chidori and Lee’s weightless speed (which he hadn’t seen) in under a week! A feat that’s impossible even with a Sharingan.
Let’s see any twelve year old repeatedly out-smart the greatest prodigy in Konoha:
All Itachi did was that he used Genjutsu. He never took on Orochimaru through a strategy. What about the fact that it took a fucking platoon of K-11 led by Kakashi to figure out that you slip through Obito and that he isn’t a Genjutsu while it took Sasuke a single slice of his blade to figure it out?
Which is a throw-back to this:
People lose their shit over Sakura like she did something special, but she used Shino’s and Kakashi’s analysis to reach that conclusion. That means she did that with two Doujutsu users and sensors with her. Sasuke did that all on his own.
What about the fight against Kabuto in which Sasuke literally directed the battle by telling Itachi how to cut through Sound 4 abilities and saved him repeatedly:
Sasuke used Katon here to stall Kabuto again. So much for “Itachi was saving Sasuke repeatedly”. It’s as if people have read a different version of the manga than I have. All Itachi did was that he recorded the fucking loop into his Sharingan to launch Izanami. What the heck does that have anything to do with intelligence? Jesus, Itachi really got fucked ten times over in Canon during this fight. In Fanon, Sasuke was obviously crying at Itachi’s feet, and he was holding Sasuke in his big strong arms!
What about Sasuke’s battle with Danzo in which he figured out Izanagi right at the start of the battle, something that took Karin the entire fucking fight to figure out (and Karin is far from stupid as she was left to be in charge of the entire hide-out by Orochimaru; she also managed to fool the entire team led by Kakashi during that Deidara fight)?
A lot of people discredit this fight that Danzo didn’t go all out, but he not only lost the battle at the very beginning but he used all of his arsenal to the fullest. He couldn’t use KA, but his KA was fucking crap: Mifune broke out of it through a simple conversation interruption. It’d have done jack to Sasuke!
What about the fact that Sasuke invented a reversal Fuinjutsu seal willy-nilly when he’d only seen Kakashi using the sealing once way back in the past?
If you look closely, the handseals aren’t even the same!
What about Orochimaru being so impressed by Sasuke’s performance that he considers Sasuke’s genius to be greater than his own (Sakura and Shizune were so shocked by Sasuke that they thought that he was doing drugs to reach where he had)?
What about the fact that he deduced Madara’s ability with ease and thought of a counter-plan on the spot?
What about the fact that Sasuke’s so good at Senjutsu and Ninjutsu that Orochimaru, Tobirama (he’s someone who’s fought the Uchiha all his life, and he’s saying that he’s never seen anyone manipulate the chakra as well as Sasuke), and Kurama praised him (Jugo, too, but I won’t post an extra scan to waste my time)?
What about the fact that Kurama compared Sasuke to the level of the Sage of the Six Paths?
This is a fucking 17-year-old kid we’re talking about! (He mastered one of the two best Cursed Seals in under and hour, for fuck’s sake! Same for Susanoo.)
Do people realize that Sasuke’s reversing the Sage’s best Jutsu, The Creation of all Things, here when he’s never even seen it? What about his improvement on Chibaku Tensai (it turns the target into the core unlike Madara’s and Nagato’s that have a core)? Improvement on Outer Path that draws chakra to himself without the presence of Mezo when even drawing chakra in the presence of the Mezo is an S-Rank feat and Nagato was only able to accomplish that with many Akatsuki members by his side? Even Madara couldn’t do it without the Mezo, but Sasuke did that not only without the Mezo but also created chains on his own? Literally no one, not even the Sage, has used the Mezo like that, and that’s Canon! Indra’s Arrow and Spear Jutsus that he invented on the battlefield? What about them?
Come the fuck on! What’s so special about Itachi and Kakashi? The former’s a complete lunatic and the latter’s as common as milk. Their strategic feats and their arsenal are … guess what? Combine their arsenal and Sasuke’s still much larger, and he built that without any teacher, unlike these two! There’s your answer!
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