sasukarin is not ss “redux”; aka, why I don’t feel hypocritical at all shipping sasukarin while disliking ss
UPDATE: A more thorough version of this post - complete with a browse-by-index option!! - is available in my dream width, HERE.
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Those who know me have probably seen me say that I’m over the never-ending pairing wank that goes down in this fandom, but if there’s one misconception that still irks me after all these years, it’s this one.
For years I’ve seen people say that: “there’s no way I can ship SasuKarin, it’s basically the same thing as SasuSaku or even worse. Liking it while disliking SasuSaku is hypocritical.”
And I just,
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SasuSaku and SasuKarin are not the same. Their similarities are purely circumstantial (having feelings for him, being the female on his team, nearly dying by his hand) but when it comes to their roots and their substance; to their dynamics, to the things that make each one of these two couples what they are—they are fundamentally different.
I realize that there’s no point in saying that without explaining my reasons for thinking as such, so here I’ll try to explain what (to me) are some of the biggest differences between them. However, please note that it is just my personal opinion (I’m sure we all find these two couples different for, well, different reasons), and it’ll most likely turn out to be a long post because I’ve been holding myself back from addressing this misconception for nearly 4 years now.
But before I get started on my perspective, there’s something that I need to address from the get-go. A truth that I’ve seen being overlooked or outright denied way too often. That is: Sasuke cares about both of them (and I say ‘cares’ because we all know that despite what might have gone down / may still go down from now on, by the end of the manga, Sasuke will have mended his bonds with those dear to him. Kishi is predictable like that, lol).
And both of these girls qualify in that very, very reduced ‘precious people’ list. When it comes to Sakura, Sasuke basically outright admits that he considers Team 7 as his precious people in Chapter 133. When it comes to Karin there are no words to accompany it, sure, but Sasuke still demonstrates it fairly clearly through his actions. I’ve been over that a thousand times already, so rather than repeating myself I’ll just say that one only needs to look at his expressions when he thought he would lose her to know he considers her as such as well.
So, what is it that makes me feel that it’s perfectly valid and not hypocritical in the slightest to strongly advocate for SasuKarin while having SasuSaku as my most disliked couple in the series?
I’ll break it into four parts:
● 1. SasuSaku and SasuKarin: An Overview.690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡzMpL0C90i8
→ SasuSaku690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡBZjE35uAQy
→ SasuKarin690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡKQEMKuNkiy
● Each girls’ behavior around Sasuke.690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡxH3eMwFoya
→ Sakura690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡnB10BdONNP
→ Karin690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡwALY3Hopka
● Their respective dynamic with Sasuke.690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡwo7JgFNTSX
→ a) Team 7 and Team Taka690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡyNnfNBos9x
→ b) ‘Darksuke’: aka, the Kage Summit fiasco690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡyvExCyExYq
→ c) Sasuke’s behavior towards Sakura and Karin690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡiz34wHwH9d
● Kishi’s themes and as such, his writing intent.
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1. SasuSaku and SasuKarin: an overview
In Chapter 484, Sakura has a flashback to some of her moments with Sasuke, and thus ends up showing the reader what, for all intents and purposes, most likely is the beginning stages of SS (these flashbacks take place during a pivotal character moment for Sakura; if something more meaningful between her and Sasuke went down and kickstarted her feelings for him, this is the place where she would have remembered it, IMO).
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If you ask me what I see here, I see Sakura harboring a crush on the handsome, aloof, cool boy for… apparently no reason aside from the fact that, well, he’s aloof and handsome and cool; because here we don’t see Sasuke doing anything else aside from being aloof and handsome and cool. Her crush is normal and understandable. And it’s also pretty much the same thing that’s going on in the rest of her class. In fact, when describing Sakura’s character in Volume 3, Kishimoto calls Sasuke her “arbitrary choice of love object” (according to the official translation. The fan scanlation has it as ’selfish’ instead).
Granted, Sakura grows to care about him as more than just the boy she’s crushing on when they’re put together on Team 7, and her feelings for him strengthen considerably. I believe this is something we can all agree on, despite our personal perspectives about said feelings.
Point is, once Team 7 is formed, Sakura is capable of forming a bond with Sasuke. However, despite the developed camaraderie, the care, and everything they went through, it’s interesting to consider that Sakura herself gives us a clear idea of how she perceives Sasuke’s end of their bond, based on what went down during their time as Team 7:
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Going by her words, there’s a sense of distance there; which is nothing to be surprised by considering Sasuke’s personality. But it’s not her words alone, not really: what she’s saying fits perfectly with everything that happened on the panel.
My point here is not that distance, though; as I mentioned above, I find that pretty normal given Sasuke’s character. I’m bringing this up because Sakura here is talking based on both, the stuff we saw on the panel and the stuff that went down off-panel. If you ask me, it leaves the reader little room for interpretation: what we see of SasuSaku is what we get. (This will become relevant once we reach Karin’s side of the equation).
I always like looking at second opinions though; especially in the manga, which is a medium where the mangaka uses third parties to shed light on matters that they either want to explain or bring up to the readers’ attention. In this case, the one to turn to is naturally the other member of their cell. So, what does Naruto recall when he thinks of Sasuke and Sakura?
It’s the exact same thing Sakura herself recalls:
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In both instances, we can see Sakura harboring a crush on him and Sasuke being the picture of indifference (or “apathy”, as the 2nd databook puts it). In other words, Sakura’s perspective is consistent with how an outsider perceives SasuSaku; I find this suggests quite consistently that there’s nothing hidden there, nothing to see ‘underneath the underneath’. Kishi could have used different panels to ‘sum up’ SasuSaku, but he didn’t. He could have given Sakura a more meaningful motif to harbor feelings for him, but he didn’t.
She is one of his precious people, yes. But I see nothing that highlights Sakura in regards to Sasuke; nothing that suggests to me, as the reader, that I’m meant to perceive their individual bond as special among Sasuke’s bonds.
Let’s now compare this with Karin:
When Karin gets her 'pivotal flashback'™ moment and looks back to the moment SasuKarin began, what does she see?
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Sasuke—broody, aloof, indifferent—Uchiha Sasuke not only saves her life (as such, giving her a weighty reason for harboring feelings for him) but he also goes out of his way to give her the only smile of its kind that he has given anyone in the manga so far.
That alone marks the first clear, substantial difference between SasuSaku and SasuKarin for me. How am I supposed to take them as “the same” when there’s already a stark difference in their roots alone? Doing so would be to miss the forest for the trees and terribly oversimplify things.
Now, Karin has not directly addressed how she feels Sasuke might perceive her; unlike Sakura (as a matter of fact, “what was I to you” is a question that remains to this day. but I digress, else I get sidetracked!).
So, since Sasuke and Karin hardly ever put anything into words and are more about actions rather than anything else, it’s not surprising that Kishi once again resorted to speaking to the reader through a third party to shed some light on the matter.
Let’s take a look at how the other members of their cell perceive their bond:
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Allow me to focus on Suigetsu first: the first thing that jumps out to me is that Suigetsu is pretty much implying that, as far as he is concerned, Karin’s feelings for Sasuke aren’t exactly one-sided or unwelcome (check out his wording on 574. he uses a phrase that implies the two in question [Sasuke and Karin] are “about to hook up” - there’s no ambiguity there). He says this based on what he has seen throughout the years because he does know them since their time in Oto. He has access to stuff the reader has yet to see. Remember he already knew about Karin’s feelings for Sasuke by the time of her introduction to the manga. In other words: he has seen what went down off-panel. Us readers haven’t. There are things about SasuKarin that we don’t yet know of, and those things helped shape Suigetsu’s perspective of their bond. Ultimately, what those things are is beside the point; what matters here is that they exist.
Now, there’s Juugo: Juugo, who is basically on the same page as the reader, having only come in contact with SasuKarin relatively recently, agrees. “I see,” (“souka”) he says. He does not contradict nor argue Suigetsu’s observation, nor his implications. On the contrary: he goes as far as outing Suigetsu for wanting to come in between SasuKarin and chides him for it.
The implications here are clear, IMO. Those closest to the respective pairings in question (due to being in the same team as them, and as such, spending the most time with them) got distinctly contrasting impressions of SasuSaku and SasuKarin. While Naruto remembers Sakura openly demonstrating her affections for Sasuke and Sasuke being the picture of indifference (a memory Sakura herself recalls and thus, an impression she herself reaffirms), whatever Suigetsu remembers gave him the opposite impression; that is, of a Sasuke who is not entirely indifferent to Karin’s affections. And Juugo accepts this as truth. Now, the point here is not whether Suigetsu is right or wrong: the point is how differently Kishi made third parties perceive SS and SK. He is bringing up these two bonds to the readers in different ways, with different implications.
Moreover, then there’s Tobi outright stating that Karin is Sasuke’s ‘favorite’ and Tobirama’s words in 619 indirectly implying Sasuke must have 'really strong feelings’ for Karin since otherwise, his Mangekyo wouldn’t have reacted to her plight in 415 (and it did react).
In other words, Karin has been highlighted in regards to Sasuke; which does give me, as the reader, enough groundwork to ponder whether I am meant to perceive their individual bond as special among Sasuke’s bonds (his bond with Naruto notwithstanding, of course).
And that marks what, to me, is the second difference between SasuSaku and SasuKarin after giving them a (vastly general) overview.
But there are many more:
2. Each girls’ behavior around Sasuke
This is one of the things that makes SasuSaku and SasuKarin fundamentally different in my eyes. In fact, to me, they’re arguably opposites in this regard.
Just like before I’ll start by talking about Sakura. How does Kishimoto describe her?
“[…] but I think she [Sakura] is a cheerful, good character. The type that wants to be a leader and is energetic and, in front of Sasuke, childlike.” (x)
“She has flaws in her personality, like stalking Sasuke.” (x)
And the 2nd Databook?
“In front of Sasuke, her personality changes but his apathy is constant”
“(Inner Sakura) A strong ‘other Sakura’! In front of Sasuke, the difference between their actions make it impossible for them to be the same two people. Is this a part of her charm?”
So we have that Sakura, a headstrong, witty, and assertive young girl apparently cared more about getting on Sasuke’s good side and making a good impression on him than about being herself. She even had an ‘Inner Sakura’ ('a strong, other sakura!’) that expressed her opinions while she outwardly swallowed them down in front of Sasuke.
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And on that subject, because I’ve often seen people bringing up that Sakura has talked back to Sasuke and cited the FoD as an example every single time; well, yeah. That’s basically one out of two times in which she has done so (though I’m sure there are more to come, and I’m looking forward to them). The first time is indeed when she yells at him that at least Naruto wasn’t a coward, and the second is in Chapter 485. The first one took place in dire circumstances; it was in the middle of a 'life or death’ situation. And the second can hardly be considered as a normal, day to day basis thing, can it? In other words, these instances are exceptions rather than the rule.
How did Sakura behave around Sasuke on a normal, day to day basis?
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And how’s her actual character?
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Allow me to clarify: this isn’t a matter of Sakura resorting to smacking Sasuke around or not; I’m not saying that she should, that’s not my point at all. My point is simply that, if I were meant to believe that during their time together Sakura and Sasuke developed a good, healthy base to have a relationship in the future, she should have been capable of being herself around him and let him feel the full extent of getting on her bad side when he does, rather than being submissive to him, period.
But she just didn’t; she resorted to crying and feeling miserable instead, and I just can’t find anything healthy about that. That’s not the Sakura I know and love. In that regard, as far as I’m concerned, Sakura’s feelings for Sasuke were detrimental to her.
Now, let’s look at Karin:
Contrary to what seems to be a popularized fandom belief, Karin’s feelings for Sasuke have actually never been detrimental to her character (no, not even going back to him was detrimental, because her line in 485 has been grossly misinterpreted). The one time she reacts in any way that could be considered 'submissive’ to him in Chapter 465, when she is facing a Sasuke she does not understand and is trying to figure out what in the world is going on with him. In other words: it’s an exception rather than the rule.
The rest of the time, this is how Karin is around other characters (namely, Suigetsu, whom she is the nastiest to):
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And this is how Karin is around and towards Sasuke:
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She may love him, but she doesn’t change herself. If Sasuke doesn’t like what she’s got to say, then that’s his business; not hers. She is not any less feisty toward him just because she loves him.
Moreover, while Sakura hid her real self from Sasuke and developed an ‘Inner Sakura’, I’d argue Karin is the direct opposite:
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Karin only shows the softer, girly side of her personality to Sasuke. In other words, Sasuke is the only person she trusts with the ‘whole’ her. She lets him see both the rough and the tender and does not try to conceal her flaws.
On top of that fundamental difference, there’s also the whole 'fangirl’ business. Unlike Sakura, Karin is tsundere for Sasuke. The only girl in the manga to be tsundere over him, at that!
That makes it so not only do their feelings for Sasuke affect them differently; they also express them differently. So, then, why is it that I’m supposed to take SasuKarin as a SasuSaku redux when they’re different even when it comes to that?
And of course, given those fundamental differences, their respective dynamics with Sasuke greatly differ as well.
And that takes me to Sasuke himself:
3. Their respective dynamic with Sasuke (both individually and as part of Team 7 and Team Taka respectively)
I think my ramblings above give a good picture of my perspective on this matter lol but it’s worth going a bit deeper about a couple of things because I do honestly believe there are more things that contribute to differentiate them from one another. So, please, indulge me for a moment.
a) Team 7 and Team Taka
As I more or less mentioned above, Sasuke grew to care about Sakura as a member of Team 7. But more than that, I honestly can’t recall a time when he has meaningfully individualized her from it (and if I’m overlooking something, please do point it out; it’d be much appreciated!).
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During her confession? For the vast majority of it, we see him thinking of Team 7, and addressing her as a member of his cell even when Sakura has clearly turned the spotlight of the conversation onto herself and how she feels about what he’s doing.
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Even in the aftermath of the other outstanding moment Sakura and Sasuke shared without Naruto around, aka the FoD hug, what do we see Sasuke thinking about?
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During the Chuunin preliminary matches, rather than remembering Sakura hugging him, he remembers both Naruto and Sakura. Naruto doesn’t even know about the Cursed Seal, so his flashback to Naruto is even of something completely unrelated. Yet, even though this was IMO the perfect opportunity for Kishi to individualize Sakura and highlight her in Sasuke’s mind; he didn’t. He added Naruto in instead and made Sasuke have a Team 7 moment.
Another perfect opportunity to highlight her would be when she was caught in Gaara’s sand. Alas, given that he did not give Sasuke any panel of Sakura focus the way he gave Naruto, I believe Kishi was making sure that Sasuke being willing to sacrifice himself was perceived to be as to ensure both, Sakura’s and Naruto’s survival (I’m sure some SS'ers would argue that it’s open to interpretation; for the sake of argument, even if I were to concede that, all that would go to show is that Kishi did not make it explicitly about Sakura, since otherwise there would be no room left for any other interpretation).
Sasuke’s bond with Sakura exists, yes, and it’s precious, but in the context of Team 7. I honestly don’t see any Sasuke-Sakura outside Team 7. Even in Part II, when the time comes to give focus to the individual bonds inside the team, Sakura has spent the vast majority of it worrying more about how Naruto feels about his bond with Sasuke, rather than her individual bond with Sasuke.690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡpFwLYfu5mU
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Because even in the context of the Team, another member always came first for Sasuke: Naruto. This was made even clearer in 485, wherein Sakura herself backs away and leaves Sasuke in Naruto’s hands. Which, I personally saw as an acknowledgment of the fact that she cannot reach nor affect Sasuke the way Naruto can.
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Now, let’s talk about Karin:
Unlike Sakura, when it comes to Sasuke, Karin actually happens to be the member that’s been individualized the most out of Taka.
Not only did their bond begin outside the context of Team Taka, but, if you ask me, Kishimoto has highlighted her and thus individualized her from the team. Rather than boring you all by going into details, I’ll just go for the clearest example: remember how I mentioned that back in the battle against Gaara, Sasuke was willing to sacrifice himself to protect Sakura and Naruto? Chapter 414 is arguably similar in the sense that, while he had no need to lay his life on the line, Sasuke does show that he wants to protect his team. So here, he shows that he appreciates Taka as a whole; Karin included.
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However, In 415 we effectively have Sasuke going the extra mile and awakening a new power for Karin and Karin alone. This is no team moment and can’t be deconstructed as such, because he is actually risking the team’s lives for her and Juugo is against it. It’s a one-man effort for one person and one person only: Karin. And thus, Sasuke is doing it out of how he feels about her as an individual and is instinctively giving more weight to her well-being than to Suigetsu’s or Juugo’s.
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To cite more recent (and obvious) stuff, there’s also Sasuke’s apology to Karin. The first (and only, for the moment) apology he has given anyone in the manga. And honestly, even if he does end up apologizing to more people in the future (which he should), nothing will make this any less meaningful. Because while he faced Konoha with a clear “I know you’re pissed but I don’t care what any of you think about me” attitude, and he evidently didn’t entertain any thoughts about apologizing to Suigetsu and Juugo for ditching them, the fact remains he reacted to and apologized to Karin the very moment he saw her. 690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡv39FpJEd4g
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So, to conclude this portion: Karin has been individualized from the team in regards to Sasuke. Not only through actions but also through words:
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And Kishi even had Tobi explicitly point out that Karin is Sasuke’s favorite.
a. One that enjoys special favor or regard.
b. One that is trusted, indulged, or preferred above all others, especially by a superior: (x)
b) 'Darksuke’: aka, the Kage Summit fiasco
I have to admit I’m no fan of the Kage Summit arc as a whole, and I say that not as a SasuKarin fan but as a fan of the series. Putting my shipper hat back on, as a Sasuke and SasuKarin fan, you will never ever see me using what transpired between SS at the time from Sasuke’s end as an anti-SasuSaku argument, because what is true for SasuKarin is also true for SasuSaku: that is, Sasuke wasn’t himself back then.
That said, things change when I shift my focus entirely towards Kishi’s writer's intent. Because writer-intent-wise, I find that it can and should be argued that there are differences between what happened between Sasuke and Sakura and what happened between Sasuke and Karin.690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡJFyTqKCemx
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The most pivotal one being, of course, the roles of each happening. While we on one hand have that Sasuke sacrificed Karin, an event that effectively served as his Moral Event Horizon and, as such, was meant to have an effect on both parties. 690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡ47VH69ZNSD
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If you don’t believe me, look at Sasuke’s reaction the first time he thinks he has beaten Danzou:
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Now compare it to his reaction once he has beaten Danzou at the cost of sacrificing Karin:
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The difference is striking. And it’s safe to say that sacrificing Karin is what marked the difference, considering both outcomes were the same as far as Sasuke was concerned: beating Danzou. The prize to be paid in order to do so is what differed. To add to that, it’s also worth noticing that in the two chapters were the SasuKarin plight took place, the chapter titles were dedicated to it: Sacrifice (480), Once More… (482. Which, by the way, was the chapter of the SasuSaku reunion, but it was instead titled after Karin’s desire to see Sasuke’s smiling face “once more…”.) 690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡFqvcnepHDy
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Allow me now to compare this with the way Kishi handled what happened between Sasuke and Sakura. Not only did Kishi have Sasuke giving no signs whatsoever of being affected by either murder attempt (1 | 2), but, if you ask me, both times his attempts on Sakura’s life were pretty much used as plot-devices; not to produce a determinate effect on either character, but to give momentum to a third party’s arrival. In the first case, it was to Kakashi’s (and it is this arrival that gets the chapter title: Master and student meet again). In the second, to Naruto’s (and, again, the chapter title goes to Naruto’s arrival: Team 7 reunited!). In neither case does Kishi give any meaningful amount of focus to what transpired between SasuSaku, and aside from showing Sakura crying, neither does he show any follow-up on either instance (and that still remains true to this day, since it's Karin whom Kishi has brought up what Sasuke did to her left and right).690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡSyiiDEXxeY
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The reason for that is very simple. It’s because the Sasuke we were dealing with by the time Sakura arrived, already was an 'entirely different Sasuke’. He already was a Sasuke who has ’entered true darkness’ and it was sacrificing Karin that served as the threshold to mark that moment. Kishi had nothing to establish regarding Sasuke’s change through his interactions with Sakura because it was something that had already come to a head through his interactions with someone else.690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡa22ygJSWhj
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Just as Teachan once said, since Sakura was already on her way there, Kishi could’ve easily had her playing the role of his threshold. But he didn’t. And, in my opinion, that’s partly because Sasuke’s interactions with Karin served to build up a better contrast, considering that the only other time Sasuke had interacted with Sakura in Part II (and he was sane back then so I can indeed take it into account), this happened:
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Notice how Kishi has third parties commenting on the fact Sasuke means serious business both times; that wouldn’t exactly serve to highlight any kind of contrast, would it?690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡMuRqJO1XjF
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Now, compare it to this:
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I think it’s safe to say it’s not just me who sees the contrast is glaring and deliberate, right? Add to that the fact that risking his life for Karin’s in 415 was arguably the last meaningful 'good deed’ Sasuke did before the Kage Summit (I say 'arguably’ because sparing Killerbee also counts, but being willing to risk his own life for somebody else obviously holds more merit in this regard), and how he is now turning around to sacrifice that very same girl, and it’s easy to see why Karin played the role she played.
There’s much more I could talk about here: the clear differences between Karin’s flashback and Sakura’s, etc, but I believe (hope) those examples already helped me illustrate my perspective because this thing is getting way too long.
c) Sasuke’s behavior towards Sakura and Karin690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡe9baHbgnaB
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… I think it was probably a mistake to leave this for last. Too long already too sleepy sobs690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡccSQZr3cPn
So I’ll try to be brief, I hope?
I’ll work based on the assumption that we’re all familiar with Sasuke’s dynamic with Sakura; and by his dynamic, with Sakura, I’m obviously talking about Part 1, because they’ve hardly interacted in Part II. When it comes to SasuKarin, it’s the opposite; but what little we have seen of their pre-Part II selves was fairly particular. 690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡJtX6uH22j9
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In part 1 we saw Sakura constantly pine after Sasuke’s attention; however, Sasuke never, ever, gave her a smile even remotely similar to the one he gave to Karin, and the best part is that Karin didn’t even have to do a single thing to get that smile out of him.690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡ33vPwNZ0Lx
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Another thing that marks a difference between Sasuke’s respective dynamics with them is that while he cares about both, it is Karin to whom he has given his full acknowledgment. He values her and her abilities enough to actively seek her out and recruit her into his team, consider her 'essential’ and admit it to her face, and trust his back to her in battle. For those who are into covers’ side-text, the one for 351 helpfully illustrates that Karin is: “the Kunoichi Sasuke has acknowledged is the strongest”.690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡlXVO3yMEw5
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Currently, Sasuke is definitely aware of Sakura’s progress and, I’d dare say, even proud of her (though this is just my perspective, of course); however his dynamic with Sakura was built upon entirely different bases. And while I do not doubt that there’ll come a time when Sasuke will give Sakura his full acknowledgment (which she deserves), the fact remains that Karin already had it and she will still remain the first girl he has acknowledged in such away.690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡZNwhPmCiPL
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Sasuke’s acknowledgment and consequently, his respect, is what I feel marks one of the three fundamental differences between his respective dynamic with Sakura and Karin. While Sasuke never had any qualms telling Sakura to “shut up”, “stay out of my business”, “this has nothing to do with you”, slapping her apples, so on so forth, the usual Sasuke (aka, not Kage Summit Sasuke) never responded to Karin in such ways. As a matter of fact, she seems to be the only one he allows to talk back to him and complain to her heart’s content without saying anything in return (Suigetsu usually gets things that go from Sasuke’s classic 'shut up’ or 'it’s none of your concern’ to 'if you don’t like it, go home’), and he even chides Suigetsu when he picks up a fight with Karin and when Karin’s the one to pick it up.690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡ8RZR3w72TH
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So, again, tell me why in the world is it that I should feel like I’m shipping SasuSaku redux when one of the main things that made me dislike SasuSaku is not a part of SasuKarin’s dynamic?690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡXlFxcemLaM
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Before moving onto the remaining two of what I call 'fundamental’ differences, I have to address the 'Genjutsu compliment’ because that’s another thing I see being brought up all the time as if that instance alone overrides all the times Sasuke was an ass to Sakura (though I agree he never meant any harm; that’s just the way he is. Alas, I’ll talk about this later). Yes, he did notice Sakura was down and he complimented her Genjutsu to raise her spirits; but why was Sakura down in the first place?
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Two chapters before that:
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This takes me to what is, to me, the second pivotal difference between these two pairings: while Sasuke not mincing his words can and does hurt Sakura’s feelings, Karin is a different matter altogether because of her attitude is nearly the same as Sasuke’s. Take him turning down her advances in 355 for example; Karin gets annoyed at his single-mindedness, but it does not emotionally affect her in the slightest, while during Sakura’s confession we saw what kind of effect Sasuke’s usual behavior had on Sakura. This alone makes SasuKarin more compatible in my eyes; they’re capable of being themselves while interacting with each other, and none of them gets hurt by the others’ roughness, bluntness, or social inexpertise. More importantly, Karin does not openly fawn over him nor fangirl him; instead of doing that, she gives him a hard time to the point Sasuke himself agrees that Karin “isn’t easy to handle”. 690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡKMtCpMD8lk
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That is exactly how I feel Sasuke’s dynamic with his potential romantic interest should be; and it’s pretty much the opposite from SasuSaku’s dynamic. So, again, they are not similar at all in this regard and I can’t see why I should find them as such.690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡcUsi61ef6E
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Lastly, the third and what might turn out to be the most pivotal difference of them all, if Kishi addresses it canon: Sasuke and Karin share a similar past. We have seen over and over through his interactions with Naruto just how much weight Sasuke puts on “knowing the pain of loneliness” and “that of loss”. This is a bridge he and Sakura do not have. She did try to understand, but it’s clear by her confession alone that she didn’t quite manage to do so. And this is not her fault, not at all; but the fact remains that Karin sharing a similar past with Sasuke (both the sole survivors of a tragedy) gives SasuKarin common ground for there to be a mutual understanding between them; an understanding born from a theme that has always been at the core of Sasuke’s character, and that greatly contributed to his most important (alive) bond: the one he has with Naruto.690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡ8fBfJv6NjZ
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And this, (un)surprisingly, is yet another thing SasuSaku and SasuKarin do not have in common. 690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡzaDwF7Jk08
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Lastly!!!
4. Kishimoto’s recurrent themes 690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡV6nLAGuK93
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I’ve been over this in the Manifesto, so forgive me for cheating and copy-pasting myself at some bits! lol690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡcBuE3L3Rg4
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“[…] There are a couple of themes that have been continuously brought up through the manga; and SasuKarin happens to fit very well with many (if not most) of them. For example:”690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡbgGUGB1VFQ
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✦ “Even the roughest woman is tender to the guy she loves” 690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡvilFLFIztC
I’ve already more or less explained why SasuKarin fits that quota town to a Tee, so I’ll just say why I feel this quote can’t be applied to SasuSaku. The reason being that, just as the page stated, what makes the behavior of said rough woman special, is that she is just as rough, bossy, and feisty to the guy she loves. That is what makes her being 'tender’ around him so special, IMO. It’s noteworthy due to the dichotomy; a dichotomy Sakura->Sasuke never had, but that SasuKarin does possess because Karin is tsundere for him.690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡ2tL0KTHh3R
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And it goes without saying that this is exactly the kind of couple dynamic that Kishimoto seems to favor; with a healthy dose of the man in question is actually scared of his tsundere girlfriend on the side.
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(notice Karin is meant to sound angry in here)
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Only one of these two couples currently fits that trope; protip, it’s not SasuSaku, because while Sakura is indeed a tsundere, she is not tsundere for Sasuke but for someone else entirely. 690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡHA9nMpJ691
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“✦ “… Do you have someone who is special to you? … When you have something special that you want to protect… only then can you become truly strong!” 690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡVe6pI8VuUQ
To put it shortly, I can’t apply this quote to Chapter 133 (Sasuke asking Naruto to save Sakura and then run away), because while he obviously wanted to protect them both; he didn’t really get the chance to do so. He got no power-up out of it, he beat no insurmountable odds to save Sakura; Naruto did. Meanwhile, I can very well apply it to Chapter 415 because Sasuke’s Sharingan did react to Karin’s plight, he did get an eye power up and he did beat up the odds. So, IMO, 415 really does go hand in hand with this memorable quote from Haku. 690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡwZyPWCrmhy
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There are a few more, like Ending the Curse of Hatred (with which SasuKarin nicely ties in, because while it’s up to Naruto and Sasuke to put an end to it, as descendants of the Rikudou Sennin outright unifying the Elder Brother’s clan with the Uzumaki would be a nice way to symbolize the end of that grudge, and a new beginning), and also that of Selfless Love, where much like Naruto’s and Jiraiya’s feelings for Sakura and Tsunade respectively, all Karin wants is to see Sasuke happy.690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡJcU1Futiv8
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Lastly, there is another thing that—while not being a recurring theme, Kishimoto has also pointed out in the manga. That is: 690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡlVQVnVkWaZ
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- The lack of suffix690Please respect copyright.ＰＥＮＡＮＡ0La7fmvDgm
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While many may have not noticed this, the truth is Karin uses no suffix with Sasuke. She calls him Sasuke, period (or 'bastard’. or 'shithead’. it all depends on her mood lol). The reason why I’m bringing this up is that Kishimoto himself has highlighted this; in the form of Sai, Kishimoto has given his thoughts about suffixes and more importantly, the absence of them:
“In order to hasten the development of understanding between yourself and others, the first thing to do is reduce any emotional barriers. For instance, when addressing someone, by using suffixes such as “-san” and “-Kun”, you’ll remain distant from that person, never seeing any reduction in emotional barriers.” “To combat this, one should first take the initiative to stop using such suffixes […] by doing so, one is able to position themselves in a particularly special and close relationship.” - pages here & here
Sakura, while becoming his teammate and friend, continues to call him “Sasuke-kun” even today. So this is another trait of Sasuke and Karin’s dynamic that separates it not only from SasuSaku but also from his dynamic with the other girls who’ve had feelings for him in the manga.
In conclusion: no, I don’t feel hypocritical at all when I say I don’t like SasuSaku in the slightest but absolutely adore SasuKarin. Neither do I feel like I’m making this distinction is out of bias, because as far as I’m concerned, Kishimoto has written and developed both pairings in fundamentally different ways; and only one of those appeals to me.
If you actually read this far: thank you, and have a great day!
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