on Karin “liking Sasuke's dark side”
@heymayumii already made a great (!!) and more succinct post about the matter here, but this issue was brought to my attention and I promised karinsperfume that I would make a post about it, so here goes more of my lengthy meta;~;
First of all, I must say this is one misconception that makes me scratch my head whenever I come across it… since I expected it to disappear altogether given what the manga showed back in 2010.
Obviously, I was wrong. But I honestly believe that by now it’s just some people deliberately refusing to acknowledge that the perception they had of Karin — and their attempts to downgrade her feelings for Sasuke — have been canonically proven wrong.
But if you ask me, this issue goes beyond a misinterpretation of Karin’s character. At its core, it’s also an oversimplification of Sasuke’s own character and of his storyline.
So, I will (briefly) address this misconception from four different angles:
- Sasuke’s character.
- Karin “is into Sasuke’s darkness”.
- What began this whole misconception in the first place (Chapter 351)
- Plus another favorite: Karin “indulging Sasuke’s darkness”.
Sasuke's character.
Nevermind the Kage Summit for now. The truth is the claim: Karin ‘is into Sasuke’s darkness’ has been around since the very year of her introduction; and worse than that, some have even gone as far as to say that’s what she likes about him.
Since this claim has been going around since 2007, it essentially implies that Sasuke was dark since Part II began.
And that’s not true. At all.
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Sure, he had a momentary darkness meltdown back at the end of Part 1. But he overcame it and regained his footing during VoTe.
Right, he abandoned Konoha and Team 7 regardless. But since when does following his own path automatically make Sasuke ‘dark’? That’s a black&white perspective that not only falls short but is completely off the mark if you ask me.
To claim that Sasuke was 'dark’ since Part II began is to miss the point of the Kage Summit arc and of his fight against Danzou; not to mention a gross misunderstanding and oversimplification of his character.
As Kishimoto himself put it in a recent Weekly Shounen Jump Interview:
“Sasuke is basically a very pure person who doesn’t think about whether or not what he does is good or bad. He just does what he wants to do, which causes trouble for others. He’s very self-centered, only concerned with himself. Some people might think what he’s doing is good, like avenging his parents or trying to realize his brothers’ ideals. But he is troubling others in his pursuits, so that aspect is bad. So it’s hard to say with clarity, but it’s all about whether it’s right or wrong to be so self-centered with your goals. I’d say he’s not good or bad, he’s just pure.” (x)
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The same applies to Sasuke’s betrayal of Konoha and Team 7.
Sasuke leaving with Orochimaru at the end of the VoTe fight did not mean that he was evil, or dark; he was simply doing what would help him accomplish his life-long goal. You may consider his decision wrong or bad depending on your moral compass and your personal feelings about the matter, and that’s perfectly okay - it’s totally your prerogative, but saying that his character itself was evil or dark simply because he left Konoha is basically giving more focus to the feelings his actions brought upon Naruto and Sakura, IMO - but that isn’t the right measuring tool to evaluate the state of Sasuke’s character.
Heck, not even the people Sasuke surrounds himself with is an accurate indicator because Sasuke’s “goal self-centeredness” has a lot to do with that, too; he is bound to ally himself with people who can be useful to him period, regardless of who they are or of his opinion about them.
What is the right measuring tool, then? As far as I’m concerned, that would be Sasuke’s actions.
From his re-introduction in Part II and up to the Kage Summit, Sasuke showed fairly clearly that despite his single-minded focus on his lifelong goal, he was still an inherently kind person. Something even the third databook alludes to:
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“Does an innate gentleness still flow deep in his heart?" Yes. That was partly shown through his interactions with Taka — both during their time as Hebi and during the pinnacle of their development as a team, aka the Killerbee fight. It was also shown through his words to Orochimaru, where he expresses that others "playing around with people like toys” for “selfish and stupid reasons” [like measuring one’s worth] make him sick.
But most importantly, the biggest proof was that Sasuke could bluff all he wanted, but when it came down to it he wouldn’t even compromise his enemy’s life if he could help it, going as far as to spare Killerbee and outright forbidding Suigetsu from killing anyone.
His only target was Itachi. Not even Orochimaru trying to push him into discarding his mercifulness had any effect on him:
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Now, compare all that with this:
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Suigetsu himself reminds us of Sasuke’s previous instructions, of his previous mindset:
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The difference is glaring. It’s meant to be as such because Sasuke simply wasn’t dark before this point.
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And that alone makes the claim that ‘Karin was into Sasuke for his darkness’ fail flat on its face because she’s been into him from the get-go — aka when he wasn’t dark.
Karin "likes Sasuke's darkness"
Which leaves us with the equally outlandish ’Karin likes Sasuke’s darkness’. Just how did Karin react once Sasuke did go dark?
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It’s not like it’s ambiguous. She kept commenting on his change and reacting to it, and not a single one of those comments was even remotely positive. You can see her look shocked, worried, and outright confused—but you never, ever see her looking at Sasuke’s darkness in a positive light. Not in the slightest.
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Instead, she keeps contrasting the ‘cold’, ‘dark’ Sasuke to the Sasuke she’s known until now—reaffirming and highlighting what the reader should’ve already known: Sasuke was not that way before.
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Did she stay with him regardless? Yes, she did, and for obvious reasons: Karin was at a loss as to what was happening to Sasuke, he still needed her and she loves him. Most importantly: while he had begun to change, he had yet to completely lose himself.
It isn’t until his fight with Danzou — and specifically, until he chooses to sacrifice Karin — that Sasuke enters “true darkness” and starts to behave like a mad-man.
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But trying to twist Karin’s loyalty and devotion into Karin being into Sasuke’s darkness, after the kind of reaction Kishi explicitly showed her having to it, is - quite frankly - absurd.
^ "...Stop, Sasuke...”
^ "No… that’s enough… [of] about Sasuke…”
Especially because Kishi went even further and outright showed us the kind of Sasuke that Karin holds closest to her heart. And he was the complete opposite of ‘dark’ — its exact antonym, and deliberately so:
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Now that the obvious is out of the way, I will go and address what (I reckon) started this whole mess in the first place.
What (IRRC) began this whole misconception in the first place (Chapter 351).
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If I remember correctly, that’s it. That’s where this all came from. People saw Karin’s reaction, assumed the thought of Sasuke killing people turned her on, and ran with it.
Karin’s reaction alone contradicts that notion because If Karin enjoyed the prospect of Sasuke killing them, wouldn’t she have been disappointed that he didn’t go through with it instead? Moreover: if Karin enjoyed the prospect of Sasuke killing in general, why in the world would she have spent what could’ve been her dying breath trying to stop Sasuke from killing Sakura?
But nevermind that. Let’s go back to what I said about Sasuke for a second. Sasuke, who always avoided touching an enemy’s vitals and even kept Suigetsu from doing so. Sasuke, who loves to act tough — like that time he acted like he was perfectly willing to give his body to Orochimaru, yet later revealed to Suigetsu that he planned to recruit a team ever since he got to Orochimaru's lair. Or that time he was perfectly fine in playing along with Obito and Akatsuki when in truth he was merely using them for their power.
Did anyone, for one second, honestly believe he would have killed Suigetsu and Juugo?
I hope the answer was a resounding no. Hell, even leaving his no-killing policy aside; do you really think Sasuke would have killed two out of the three people he specifically sought out to help him accomplish his lifelong goal? Seriously? This wasn’t a Sasuke who was being influenced by the Uchiha’s curse of hatred. He was perfectly capable of rational thought and of weighing the pros and cons of his actions — and as mentioned before, Sasuke is goal-oriented to an (arguably) unhealthy degree. Killing Suigetsu and Juugo would have been extremely counterproductive for him.
All Sasuke was doing was scaring them into submission. And if you ask me, both Karin and Suigetsu himself were plenty aware of it. Suigetsu had already called Sasuke out on being “soft” before. Karin can tell when people lie.
So, then: what was it that turned Karin on?
That by intimidating them, he was showing them who was in charge.
Aside from this chapter, there have only been two other instances where Karin has reacted to Sasuke in such a way; 408 and 410.The common factor in these three instances? Sasuke was acting like the boss, showing that he followed no one’s orders but his own, and getting others to bend to his will without barely moving a finger. So Karin has been consistently been shown to find that side of Sasuke attractive.
But Sasuke not shying-away from empty-threatening others is not Sasuke being dark, nor evil. To quote Kishi: “He just does what he wants to do, which causes trouble for others. He’s very self-centered, only concerned with himself […] self-centered with [his] goals."
Sasuke had already shown similar behavior back in Part I, while he was with Konoha and Team 7. Remember that time when Kabuto helped them in the FoD, and Sasuke didn’t hesitate to try and fight him regardless to take his scroll? He did it precisely because it was the easiest way to accomplish his goal and move to the next phase. But despite what he said and what he was willing to do —
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He got called out on his bluff. That’s Sasuke for you.
So as you can see: Sasuke’s 'darkness’ was not due to leave Konoha to pursue his revenge. During the first half of Part II, his morals and essence were basically intact. The issue was that, just as Itachi put it, Sasuke was a ‘blank canvas’. Sasuke’s issues began once Obito stepped in and profited from Sasuke’s malleability.
Which takes me to the last claim:
"Karin indulges Sasuke's darkness"
Again: Karin trying to stop Sasuke from killing Sakura refutes that claim.
But the truth is that said claims simply come because Karin willingly assisted Sasuke with his revenge. In other words: they come from people judging Karin’s character based on a moral compass that does not apply to her, nor to Sasuke. IE: the Konoha moral compass. But while Sasuke, Karin, and Taka may not put the same stops that, say, Naruto or Sakura or Ino may have, that does not mean they lack morals or kindness altogether. They just do not have the same inhibitions (for lack of a better word); the lines they are not willing to cross differ. That is all.
Plus, as far as I’m concerned: while Konoha might not have shared the sentiment, while Sasuke was solely going after Itachi, he actually harmed no one.
As I mentioned above: the problem started when Obito stepped in and knew just what buttons to push.
And even then — Did he turn his wrath onto Konoha and made it Taka’s target? Yes. But as far as Karin and Taka were concerned, they were going after the Elders only, which was - for all intents and purposes - as justifiable as going after Itachi had previously been. Secondly, while he did agree to capture Killerbee, he spared him at the end in typical Sasuke fashion.
So when it comes down to it: until the Kage Summit, Sasuke did not give Karin any reasons to be worried.
In other words: Karin understanding Sasuke’s goals and helping him achieve them - understanding and accepting all sides of Sasuke's core personality - does not mean she is indulging or feeding into his darkness. Because Sasuke’s change was brought about by other factors and she was not made privy to his desire to kill the entire village.
Moreover, there is no way Karin would feed Sasuke’s darkness when her reaction to Sasuke forsaking his kindness and his moral compass was anything but positive.
/ illustrated bible
ns 172.70.130.192da2
and then Add to home screen.